Unlocking Wellbeing in The Workplace - Get Employee Wellbeing Right!

Hello and welcome, everyone.  Today, I’m joined by Louise Kennedy, the founder and owner of Oculus HR. I absolutely love the name, and I’m curious to learn more about the meaning behind ‘Oculus.’ It has such a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?

Louise

I know! Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being on the podcast, and I’m really looking forward to our conversation today. So, let me explain where the name 'Oculus' comes from. At the time we were deciding whether to set up the business, I was going through redundancy and making decisions around that. I was actually in Rome, visiting the Pantheon with my husband for his 40th birthday. While we were there, we noticed the oculus in the ceiling—a large circular opening, which is an architectural feature, but it also refers to a part of the eye.

As we stood there, sunlight was shining through the middle of the oculus, and it struck me how relevant that image was to HR. HR often deals with the 'dark' side—contracts, policies, procedures, all the necessary but less exciting things. But the light shining through represents the positive impact we can make within a business, helping the employees and fostering a better environment. So that’s where the name comes from—the contrast between the must-do tasks and the light we can bring to a business by helping its people. It’s a nice little story we like to tell.

Sara:
"It really is, and I think it’s a perfect fit for today’s conversation about health and wellbeing in the workplace. As we discussed before we started recording, at The Mind Solution, we’re focused on bringing that light into organisations, helping employees see beyond the limitations of their thinking, which often keeps them trapped in the dark—stuck in that mental prison. We’re here to help people break free and step into the light. So, yes, we’ve got a lot of light shining today, Louise!"

Louise:
"Definitely!"

Sara:
"I’d love for you to share a bit about your background, Louise. Why should people listen to you?"

Louise:
<laughs> "Why should they listen to me? Well, I’ve been running a HR company for 11 years now. We’re based in the northeast of England, but we work with businesses across the UK. Initially, we were focused on providing day-to-day HR support for businesses, helping them with everything from hiring their first employee to managing more complex operational HR needs.

In the last six to seven months, we’ve expanded our services to include roles like Chief People Officer. This is ideal for small businesses that can’t afford to hire someone full-time to focus on strategy. It’s been really successful because we can provide that senior-level expertise without the full-time cost. Personally, I also love delivering training and assessments on emotional intelligence, which is key in shaping an effective senior leadership team.

We offer a variety of services, including mediation and Rising Stars programmes, so there’s a lot that we do. I think today will be a great opportunity to discuss how we can help businesses and, from a mindset perspective, how senior leaders can develop the right attitude, framing their thoughts in a way that drives positive action."

Sara:
"Given your experience running a HR organisation and your background in the field, I think it’s fair to say that in a post-pandemic world, we’ve never seen such a focus on health and wellbeing in the workplace. I’m curious—what are the most significant trends you’re seeing within organisations when it comes to health and wellbeing?"

Louise:
"In terms of trends, there’s definitely a lot more awareness and freedom to discuss health and wellbeing. Before Covid, people tended to manage their personal situations quietly, and it wasn’t uncommon for someone to be on long-term sick leave, with HR trying to encourage them back to work. Now, however, there’s much more openness around health and wellbeing. Employees feel more comfortable bringing up any concerns, whether they’re related to their work or personal lives. They’re also more proactive in ensuring their workplace is aware of any issues they may have, which has really helped foster a better understanding of their needs.

We’ve seen a rise in the number of companies offering support services such as counselling. We work with various counselling providers, and more businesses are now willing to invest in these services to ensure their employees are well cared for. This investment has really paid off for companies in terms of employee loyalty. When businesses spend a few thousand pounds on support services, employees appreciate that commitment, and in return, they become more dedicated to the organisation. So that’s been a notable trend—employers showing real commitment to their staff, and it’s had a positive impact.

I’d say those are the two key trends we’ve observed. But I also believe that more organisations are now looking at how they can genuinely support their employees, moving beyond just ticking boxes. As we mentioned earlier, it’s about making a real difference in how they support their people, in various meaningful ways."

Sara:
"Hmm. Now, playing a bit of devil's advocate here, picking up on what you mentioned about counselling services. As you know, my background is in HR, and I’ve been the founder of The Mind Solution for around 12 or 13 years. I still see many organisations following a very traditional approach to supporting employees, particularly with counselling services. Yet, we live in a world with a variety of alternative approaches to health and wellbeing. For instance, in my own work as an energy worker and healer, alongside hypnotherapy, I’ve seen how alternative treatments can support people more effectively than traditional talk therapies. Are you seeing any of that shift in your experience—organisations exploring what I would call more ‘leading-edge’ approaches, as opposed to sticking with traditional talking therapies?"

Louise:
"I don’t, I genuinely don’t see a lot of that happening. I think, especially with smaller businesses, they’re still struggling to know what to do in terms of providing support. They’re just starting to explore how they can offer support, both emotionally and financially, and stepping outside of the usual remit of traditional support services. We’re not seeing a massive shift towards alternative methods just yet.

A lot of the businesses we work with are smaller or growth businesses, going from around 50 employees to 100 or 150. They’re still very much focused on transactional tasks, ensuring that their people are engaged and supported in more conventional ways. While we do work with them to sit down and discuss the needs of their employees, many companies are unsure of what exactly they should be offering or what types of support are available.

For example, if you were to suggest something like Reiki, I think many businesses would struggle to see how that could be beneficial to their employees. It often comes down to encouraging the employee to speak up about what they need. For instance, I recently dealt with a situation where a woman felt she was being bullied in the workplace. Part of our conversation was about offering counselling support, which is the usual route, but she could also benefit from alternative, spiritual support, like Reiki. However, many businesses wouldn’t even consider that option—they’d likely stick to offering day-to-day counselling because it’s proven, effective, and familiar.

That said, while traditional methods like counselling are valuable, there’s still a long way to go in terms of getting businesses to consider alternative approaches. For some, the challenge lies in understanding how these approaches impact the business and its bottom line, especially in terms of employee engagement. So, I think we’re still quite a way off from seeing widespread adoption of more holistic support methods, but the conversation is beginning."

Sara

"Yes, I completely agree. We tend to do what makes sense to us. For many organisations, offering counselling is a logical step. But, for example, this Friday, I’m running a free event on healing trauma—details are in the links below—and it’s about how we can heal trauma more effectively. Talking therapies, while helpful, can actually be the least effective way of dealing with trauma because they risk retraumatising people. The unconscious mind doesn’t distinguish between what’s real and what’s imagined, so revisiting traumatic experiences through talking therapies can sometimes make things worse.

Take someone who’s been bullied—they might suffer from post-traumatic stress or complex PTSD, and while counselling is helpful, there are other healing modalities that can process trauma more effectively. And I’m not necessarily talking about Reiki, which, while beneficial for physical healing, might not be as impactful for changing mindsets. But we can offer trauma healing modalities that work in group settings—no one has to have their camera on or even speak, and healing can happen within a few sessions.

For organisations, particularly larger ones like the NHS, this could make a real difference. For example, we know that in the NHS, one doctor takes their own life every three weeks, and one nurse every week. And that’s just the NHS—it doesn’t include other sectors like fire brigades or the police. Leading-edge approaches to healing trauma can not only support individuals but also benefit organisations in the long run by improving wellbeing and productivity. Does that make sense?"

Louise:
"Absolutely, it makes complete sense. That’s really where businesses need to be heading. For example, the lady I mentioned earlier who feels bullied at work—her situation is compounded by personal trauma. Her husband committed suicide, and her mother recently passed away, so everything she’s experienced has likely intensified her current struggles. The counselling she’s receiving hasn’t been enough for her; there’s still a block. It’s fascinating because it highlights exactly what you’ve been saying—there are different types of support available, and educating people about these options is crucial.

It also comes down to what’s being promoted as available services within local areas. Businesses need to understand the range of options out there and the potential impact they can have. But the challenge is twofold—educating both the business and the employee. If employees don’t know these services exist, they’re unlikely to ask for them, unless they’re already aware from personal experience."

Sara:
"Exactly, I totally agree. Feel free to share the link to the event with her and anyone else who might benefit. It’s such an incredible way to treat and heal trauma.

Now, another area I’ve seen gaining more attention from organisations is mental health training for managers. I’m curious—what are you seeing around that in the businesses you work with?"

Louise:
"Yeah, I think there’s definitely been a rise in mental health training for managers. Mental health first aid training is a popular option, but from my experience, and this is just my personal opinion, I don’t think it’s always effective. I’ve found that people who undergo this type of training often still don’t know what to do when someone approaches them with a mental health issue. They have an awareness of different conditions, but when it comes to taking the next steps, they seem to struggle. I think businesses need to go beyond just offering the training—they also need to provide clear guidance on what services and support are available within the organisation.

Sometimes, employees approach mental health first aiders, but those first aiders are left feeling unsure about how to help. They end up carrying the burden of knowing someone needs support without knowing how to provide it. I’m not the biggest fan of mental health first aid unless the business also fosters a supportive culture that enables those trained individuals to really take action.

Some of the businesses we work with have tailored mental health programmes, which I think are more effective. These programmes are designed specifically for the business and its needs, and they help managers and staff open up about the issues that are relevant to their workplace. For example, one of the companies we work with focuses on specific challenges like drug use or alcoholism within the local area. When training is tailored to address these local trends, it makes a significant difference because it becomes more relevant to the employees' lives.

But again, it’s not just about giving managers information—it’s about what they’re empowered to do. What support does the business provide to help them take action? So while mental health training for managers is a positive step, it’s not the full solution. Some of our clients also run educational programmes, and I’m currently working with a company that’s rolling out a series of six or seven sessions across their different sites. These are being run by psychologists, which allows for a deeper dive into specific topics, and the programmes are tailored to their needs. That type of approach really engages people because they understand more and learn something new.

So, in summary, mental health training for managers definitely has its place, but it’s all about how it’s supported and carried forward within the business."

Sara:
"Yeah, I totally agree with you. I really resonate with your comments about Mental Health First Aiders because, interestingly, the reason they were originally introduced wasn’t actually related to mental health at all. It was a response to the rise in workplace bullying, with the idea that these individuals would act almost as internal mediators to support those affected. Over time, this role evolved into Mental Health First Aid. But in my experience as a psychotherapist, having held around 10,000 one-to-one sessions, I was horrified to learn that people were being put in this position after just one or two days of training. It’s a huge responsibility!"

Louise:
"Absolutely, it’s a big responsibility for the individual attending the training."

Sara:
"It really is. As you mentioned, mental health is an enormous topic, and people walk away from these short training sessions with a list of conditions but often little understanding of what to do next. From my perspective, the role of a Mental Health First Aider isn’t about understanding conditions or spotting signs—that’s not their job. It’s about having the core skills to hold space for someone, to listen, to connect, and to ask the right questions.

I’ve seen organisations that really get it right by continuing to provide ongoing training to their Mental Health First Aiders. Some of these first aiders may also be dealing with their own mental health struggles, which gives them a vested interest in helping others. But the risk is that they can sometimes feel like they need to jump in and fix things, which isn’t their role. I think the programme had the right intentions, but it’s missing some crucial core skills training. For instance, in our Mental Health for Managers training, we focus a lot on solution-focused coaching, listening skills, boundaries, and creating psychological safety. This helps managers hold space for their teams without feeling the pressure to solve everything. I completely agree with you on this."

Louise:
"And I think part of that is understanding the difference between sympathy and empathy, isn’t it? Listening skills are so important in those situations. It’s about holding space without taking on the emotional burden themselves. Empathy plays a huge role in deciding to become a Mental Health First Aider or participating in any kind of mental health training."

Sara:
"Exactly. One of the key things that comes through in our mental health training for managers is awareness. So many managers have joked, 'I didn’t even realise I was stressed!' Some of it is about helping them recognise their own stress and making sure they 'put on their own oxygen mask first,' as they say on airplanes, before helping others. A big thing we see, especially in the US, is that when managers talk to their teams, they jump straight into work mode. There’s less of that human connection—what we might call 'water cooler' chat. Instead of just asking, 'Louise, how are you really doing today?' the focus is always on work, objectives, and tasks. What’s your take on that, Louise?"

Louise:
"I think you’re right, especially with the shift to Zoom and Teams meetings. That casual chit-chat often gets pushed aside. For example, one of my colleagues, Deborah, was away in London over the weekend. This morning, when we connected, I went straight into work mode—asking about tasks and what needed to be done. I did text her to say I hoped she had a nice weekend, but I didn’t circle back to ask if she actually enjoyed taking the kids away. I think with virtual meetings, we tend to feel more time-pressured, and that affects our interactions."

"Yeah, I think there’s a real push to speed things through, so you don’t hold everything up. And with Teams and video conferencing, there’s just not as much room for that chit-chat. A couple of weeks ago, we decided to go out as a team just to have a catch-up—not necessarily to talk about work, but to have proper conversations and connect. For us, as a small business, those moments are really needed. We timed it between holidays, knowing some people had just been away and others were about to go, but it was important to take a pause and just chat.

I also think it's about how you position yourself. For example, a couple of weeks ago, one of my team members messaged me saying they really needed to have a conversation that day. My immediate reaction was concern, like, ‘Are you all right?’ And then, as a business owner, it becomes crucial to ensure that conversation happens. If someone reaches out with something serious, you need to make it a priority. That day, my team member’s wellbeing was my top concern, and making time for that conversation was essential.

You can look at it from different angles. On one hand, as colleagues, you might want to have more casual conversations and chit-chat, but as a business owner, you also need to provide space and time for open, meaningful conversations. It’s important for your team to feel they can reach out when something’s wrong and know they’ll get the support they need. For me, being a business owner means making sure my team’s concerns are addressed promptly so they’re not carrying any hidden burdens. I might have gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but there are different elements to this. It all comes back to listening and empathy—those are the core skills for being open with people."

Sara:
"And what’s your advice for managers in this world where remote working has become so prevalent? It sounds old-fashioned when I say ‘back in my day,’ but there was much more physical interaction back then. You’d walk from meeting to meeting, or grab a cup of tea in the kitchen, and have those spontaneous interactions. Now, with so much happening over Teams or Zoom, that’s missing. I remember speaking to someone who worked for a bank, and she said she had only ever met her manager online. Her manager had never even turned his camera on, so she had no idea what he looked like! I thought, ‘How is that even possible?’ But as we know, common sense isn’t always common practice. So what do you think managers need to be doing more of to connect with their teams on a human level, especially when working remotely?"

Louise:
"I think it's really about maintaining that connection or establishing a good one, especially when someone is new to the business. It’s important to set clear boundaries around working from home and have conversations with employees about what works for them. From a business point of view, it’s helpful to set expectations, whether that’s a weekly touch base or something else. And, as you mentioned earlier, having the camera on during video calls is crucial. You need that eye contact to engage properly and have meaningful conversations.

Some businesses I know organise quarterly meetups where the team comes together for a workday or structured meeting, which increases interaction. Personally, I still prefer face-to-face meetings over video conferences, but virtual meetings do have their place. The upside of this remote working capability is that you can now hire talent from anywhere in the world. Still, the human interaction element remains vital. Managers need to take responsibility for ensuring those conversations happen regularly.

It’s also important not to assume that everyone enjoys remote or hybrid working. Managers should have individual conversations with employees to understand what works best for them. Some people prefer the office environment or might not want to work from home all the time. In those cases, companies could look at options like shared desk spaces or renting office space. Opening up these conversations helps managers understand their team’s preferences and needs, and it keeps the dialogue flowing.

This shouldn’t just be a one-off conversation either. Just because you asked someone what they wanted two years ago doesn’t mean that’s still true today. People’s lives change, and their needs evolve, whether it’s due to home life or external factors. Keeping that conversation open and regular is key, and that only happens when you make time for one-to-one conversations.

Sara:
"Absolutely, and I’ve seen several organisations that have invested in employee wellbeing platforms. We offer a platform that includes things like EFT tapping—have you heard of EFT tapping, Louise?"

Louise:
"I certainly have! <laughs>"

Sara:
"It’s so leading edge! The platform gives people access to videos on mental health, along with loads of amazing techniques, tools, and resources. One thing I loved was what a company in the US, ISN Software, was doing. They had teams spread across the world, and they would use the platform to pick a video—sometimes just a five-minute video on a specific aspect of mental health or the mind—and everyone would watch it. Afterward, they’d discuss it as part of their monthly team meeting.

One manager who went through our mental health training comes to mind. He managed large remote teams and admitted that they had never really discussed stress or burnout. I suggested having the team watch a video together and then talking about their thoughts and takeaways. He did it, and he got more engagement from his team than ever before. A few team members even opened up about their struggles, which had never come up in conversations before. It was a beautiful way to start an important dialogue. It was also a real eye-opener for him—he’d assumed that because he didn’t hear from anyone, everything was fine. It’s a reminder never to make assumptions; you never know what’s going on behind closed doors.

What they ended up doing was committing to this practice on a monthly basis. It wasn’t just about mental health and wellbeing but also about understanding the mind. They explored topics like what stress really is, how we respond to situations, and how to navigate our inner mindset. The change in team dynamics was remarkable, with much more psychological safety. While they didn’t specifically measure productivity, the manager saw immense value in those monthly discussions. The organisation had paid for the platform, and they found creative ways to use it. Does that make sense?"

Louise:
"Completely. From a mindset perspective, if you can start conversations with the right people, it helps frame how you think and what you want to achieve. Opening up these discussions encourages others to speak up, whether it’s concerns about work or something personal. It really shapes how people think and behave. One of the books I’ve read recently talked about 'faulty thinking' and 'fruity thinking,' which is quite a nice way to put it."

Sara:
"Fruity thinking! <laughs>"

Louise:
"It’s quite a nice way of looking at it. Faulty thinking is like, ‘I’ve always done it this way, so I’ll keep doing it this way,’ or constantly worrying about things—basically negative thinking. On the other hand, fruity thinking is about changing your perspective: if you think differently, you can reframe situations and get different outcomes. The more you shift your mindset, the more your actions and results will change. It’s about recognising when you’re worrying unnecessarily and putting a plan in place. Instead of getting stuck in negative thoughts, you can prepare for what might happen and feel more in control.

I really like that terminology because faulty thinking represents the negative, while fruity thinking is all about the positive—about how you can shift your mindset. Over the last couple of years, I’ve learned to recognise when I’m going down a negative path and consciously turn that around into fruity thinking. Thinking differently really does lead to different results. I think there’s a huge element of that in the workplace too. Opening conversations where people feel free to think differently and be given permission to do so is key. Many people don’t know if it’s okay to have those conversations, so making them feel comfortable is a vital part of starting these discussions at work."

Sara:
"Absolutely. And following on from that, what do you think leaders, whether in organisations with 50 people or 5,000, need to be doing more of when it comes to employee wellbeing? There’s definitely more focus on wellbeing, but I still hear terms like ‘fast-paced organisation’ and stories of burnout, rising suicide rates, and mental health struggles. From a cultural or strategic standpoint, what do you think leaders should be focusing on?"

Louise:
"I think it ties back to everything we’ve been discussing—it’s about listening to what employees need, when they need it, and how they need it. Leaders have the power to shape the culture of their business, and by listening to their teams, they can drive the business forward. It’s about understanding what employees want and need, because they are the ones delivering the services and making the business successful.

Leaders need to listen, but also do their research. What makes an organisation truly successful? What strategies work in different industries? We work with such a broad range of sectors—from GP surgeries to boat repair companies in the Indian Ocean—so each one has a different mindset and set of needs. But across all sectors, it comes down to listening to employees, allowing them to speak up, and creating an environment where it’s okay to have these conversations. That’s what will really make a difference."

Sara:
"And what about HR leaders? We work with a lot of organisations where HR, unless they have a dedicated wellbeing lead or manager with the right training and background, often feel out of their depth when it comes to health and wellbeing strategies. Recently, we developed a health and wellbeing strategy for an organisation, and the HR director said something I found quite refreshing—she admitted, 'We’re not experts in this field.' She’s an expert in HR strategy, but health and wellbeing was new territory for her. It reminded me of what we talked about earlier, where it can feel like you’re just throwing jelly at the wall, hoping something sticks, instead of taking a strategic approach. What do you think HR leaders need in order to deliver a more strategic and effective approach to health and wellbeing?"

Louise:
"I think it’s really about knowing when to reach out for support. As you mentioned, many HR professionals, whether they’re business partners or directors, have been in their roles for years, sometimes within the same company. If they don’t step out of that environment to learn more, they end up in the same mindset. Attending conferences, networking with other professionals, and seeking external expertise are crucial for broadening their perspective.

Reaching out to specialists, like yourselves, can really help wake them up to new possibilities. I don’t think HR leaders always know enough if they’re solely within one business. It’s completely okay to ask for help, and I’m a big believer in bringing in external support when necessary. We often see HR professionals being hesitant to bring in outsiders, perhaps thinking they’ll lose control, but in reality, external experts bring best practices and a wealth of experience from other businesses.

This kind of support doesn’t have to be costly, but the expertise you bring in can be invaluable to the business. Whether it’s health and wellbeing or something like recruitment strategies, reaching out ensures you’re delivering cutting-edge solutions. Surrounding yourself with the right people and staying up to date through conferences and community groups is essential for developing the best strategies for your organisation."

Sara:
"Absolutely. And when it comes to measuring the effectiveness of these initiatives, especially if they aren’t tied to a broader health and wellbeing strategy, what advice would you give to HR leaders? How can they measure effectiveness, especially when there’s a limited budget? Often when we ask about budgets, the response is, 'We don’t really have one.' How can HR and L&D teams measure results in a way that allows them to go back to the exec team or the board and show the specific value these initiatives are delivering?"

Louise:
"I think it all starts with understanding your baseline—knowing where you are now. It’s essential to have some sort of record or assessment of your starting point so you can measure progress down the line. Whether it’s 3, 6, or 12 months later, you need something concrete to compare against. We do this with many of our clients. For example, with our HR mentoring programmes, we start with a survey or set of questions to assess where they are at the beginning."

Louise:
"Yes, and it’s important to have a touchpoint in the middle, and then again at the end, so you can measure the impact over time. If you don’t know where your starting point was, it becomes really difficult to gauge effectiveness at the end. I think some people try to measure results without having that initial comparison, which makes it tricky. It’s crucial to have a baseline. I also think it’s important to look at metrics like employee retention and engagement—those areas can really reflect the success of wellbeing initiatives, but again, you need something to measure against.

For example, we worked with a business where four different employees were going through significant personal challenges. One individual was struggling with thoughts of taking his own life, and the support services provided by the company helped prevent that outcome by giving him a safe space to reach out. Other employees were dealing with self-harm, and two more had issues with drug addiction—one of whom had even been involved in a workplace accident. The business was able to support these individuals, and now, three or four years later, these employees are still with the company. They’re engaged and loyal because they were given the space and support they needed.

So, while it’s not always about the numbers, the loyalty and retention you get from investing in people’s wellbeing can be invaluable. Keeping that talent within the business, along with their knowledge and experience, pays back in the long run. But you do need to know your starting point, your checkpoints, and your final review to see the full impact."

Sara:
"Absolutely. And I suppose one of my final questions—oh, I’ve lost my train of thought! Keep talking, it’ll come back to me! <laughs>"

Louise:
"I’ve had to jot a few things down as well, just to keep track. <laughs>"

Sara:
"Oh, there it is! It’s come back. I was really surprised to learn that some organisations don’t even measure absence. In my HR experience, absence was something we always tracked. We reported on it regularly to the strategy board or exec team, and it felt like the X Factor sometimes! We had to explain what we were doing to reduce absence and employee relations issues. That’s when I had a lightbulb moment—that this was a missing piece of the puzzle. If we could give people knowledge and insight into the mind, mindset, and wellbeing, we could approach absence management differently.

It still surprises me when I talk to organisations that don’t track absence. When we discuss mental health training for managers and I ask about common themes, they often can’t provide an answer because they’re not in a position to know. In some cultures, employees can take time off without giving a reason, which I support, but without good HR business partners on the ground, it’s hard to know where to start if you don’t even know what problem you’re trying to solve. Does that make sense?"

Louise:
"It absolutely does. A lot of small businesses don’t properly track absence, whether short- or long-term. One example I’m working with now is a company where an employee has been off for seven months. They wanted to return to work but weren’t fit enough to do so, and we’re still working through the process six months later. The business would’ve found itself in a tough spot if they hadn’t sought help because they didn’t know how to handle the situation."

Louise:
"Yes, there’s definitely a lot of work around managing longer-term absences and the support needed for those situations. Statistics show that if someone has been off for over 12 months with limited contact from their workplace, the likelihood of them returning to work is very low. That’s why we always recommend staying in touch, meeting every four or five weeks from the start of their absence. It allows for open conversations and lets the business decide what help and support they can provide to facilitate a successful return to work when the employee is ready.

Alternatively, if the situation reaches a point where the employee may need to exit the business, at least there’s a clear process to follow. Long-term absences need to be managed properly, but short-term absences are also crucial. Opening conversations early, discussing any underlying health conditions, and ensuring the business understands what’s going on is key. Of course, there are times when warnings are necessary if absences are being misused, but for those with genuine wellbeing issues or long-term health conditions, businesses need to ask the right questions. Many businesses don’t, and some even allow holidays to cover absences, which can mask underlying concerns.

We’re very passionate about managing this well because businesses see a real impact when they put proper structures in place. Once that happens, there’s a sense of relief when they realise that managing absences properly helps both the employees and the business."

Sara:
"And that’s why we’re so passionate about mental health training for managers too—it’s part of supporting people’s return to work. I still work as a private coach and therapist, and I remember one client, a director at a bank, who had been out of work for four months. It had a huge impact on the organisation. Her manager had a 'wellbeing check-in' and asked her, 'Are you feeling worse, better, or about the same?' <laughs> I cringed when she told me that, and I thought, 'Please, give me your HR director’s phone number so we can get some mental health training in place!'"

Louise:
"<laughs> Exactly! And it's difficult for people in those situations because when they're asked in such a way, it doesn't really facilitate an open conversation. Knowing how to approach these conversations properly makes a world of difference. Putting the right terminology around it and being supportive is crucial, especially with someone who’s been off for four months at a high level in a business. That’s hard for both the employee and the business."

Sara:
"Thankfully, she came to me, and we got her back to work! <laughs>"

Louise:
"And that's the thing—sometimes people reach out for help privately because they know they need it. It goes back to what we said earlier: people often don’t know what they need until they’re exposed to the right services. Once they experience that, it makes a huge impact."

Sara:
"Absolutely. I remember delivering mental health training for one organisation and mentioning hypnotherapy. Later, the marketing director contacted me saying she had a crippling fear of public speaking, which she could no longer avoid. She had tried CBT and counselling with no success, but after just a few hypnotherapy sessions, she completely transformed. Her confidence skyrocketed, and she was able to pitch and present at the level required for her role. It was amazing to see."

Louise:
"That’s fantastic. It’s the same with mindset work. My son was terrified of flying, even though we’d travelled the world. He had hypnotherapy, and now he’s able to fly again. Once you know those kinds of options exist, it opens up so many possibilities."

Sara:
"Exactly. That’s why we love our employee wellbeing webinars. We introduce techniques people may never have heard of, like EFT, and do live demos. People are amazed at how different they feel after just 10 minutes. It can feel too good to be true, but it’s all rooted in science. It opens up a whole new world of possibilities for people to support themselves.

Which leads me to my next question. In the UK, if someone is on long-term sick leave and isn’t taking full accountability for their health and wellbeing—perhaps they’ve engaged with EAP services or had counselling but still haven’t returned to work—what’s the stance organisations should take? We have the Equality Act, so we can’t discriminate, but what can businesses do if someone isn’t fully taking responsibility?"

Louise:
"Every business needs to be careful about how they handle these situations and ensure they get the right advice. We generally recommend starting to manage longer-term absences after four to five weeks. Regular check-ins every four to six weeks help you gauge whether the employee is taking accountability and using the resources available to them, whether that’s NHS services, private therapy, or workplace support.

During those check-ins, it’s important to make the employee accountable: 'Have you followed up with this? Have you reached out to that service?' A business can only do so much. At the end of the day, the individual has to take responsibility and have the right mindset to want to return to work. After exhausting all support options, you may need to arrange occupational health assessments or obtain a GP report to assess whether the employee is fit to return.

Ultimately, there comes a point where the business has to make a decision. You may have to exit the employee from the business if they’re not able to return. The business needs someone in that role, and you can’t wait indefinitely. Some smaller businesses might need to act after six or seven months, while larger businesses may be able to wait 12 or 18 months. But it’s crucial to follow the right steps, offer the necessary support, and ensure you’ve done everything you can before making that decision."

Sara:
"Yes, and that really highlights the need for prevention over cure, doesn’t it?"

Louise:
"It does. Prevention is key. We’ve seen situations where an employee starts having issues, but no one realises what’s going on. For example, I once worked with a man who lost his temper at work, and when we investigated, we discovered he was dealing with immense personal stress—his wife had a mental breakdown, one of his children was diagnosed with autism, and the other was being assessed for ADHD. He didn’t know how to handle it all, and it spilled over into the workplace. If the manager had known more, the situation could have been handled differently from the start."

Sara:
"That reminds me of what we talked about earlier—those casual, 'water cooler' conversations where a manager asks, 'How are you really doing?' If the manager had known more, that whole incident could have been prevented."

Louise:
"Exactly. I was recently working with someone on emotional intelligence assessments, and one of their senior leaders had emailed asking, 'Are you okay? You don’t seem like yourself.' The employee felt so honoured that they took the time to check in. He hadn’t even realised he’d been having those kitchen conversations until I pointed it out. Once he saw it in writing, he realised that people had noticed and cared. It opened the door for him to talk openly about what was going on, and it made a huge difference."

Sara:
"Absolutely. So my final question, because we could easily chat for two hours like two northern buses! This one doesn’t have a one-size-fits-all answer, but I’m curious about your thoughts on where wellbeing should sit within an organisation. From my observations, I see wellbeing initiatives being led by individuals who aren’t necessarily in the people function. For example, we were approached by a large pharmaceutical company with a massive people function, but it was their Corporate Sustainability Manager who was organising mental health training for managers. I asked her why HR or L&D wasn’t handling it, and she said, 'Oh, I’ve just been given responsibility for wellbeing.' I found that surprising, but I see it quite often—wellbeing doesn’t seem to have a defined home and gets passed around. So, where do you think wellbeing should belong within an organisation?"

Louise:
"I think it really belongs across the entire leadership team. Wellbeing should be an overarching priority for leadership, with accountability and conversations happening from the boardroom down. It needs to be part of the regular discussions about looking after people and creating a positive workplace culture.

In my view, wellbeing fits within the people function because it’s closely connected to other people strategies, and they all need to work together like pieces of a jigsaw. But I don’t think HR or the people function should take full responsibility for wellbeing. It can be shared across committees—like a wellbeing or culture committee—where people from different areas of the business come together to make suggestions, organise initiatives, and ensure that wellbeing efforts are proactive and structured. Having someone from the people function involved, like a Chief People Officer, who can feed back to leadership is key, but a wider group can bring in different perspectives and ideas.

The important thing is to be clear about what the group is trying to achieve. What are the terms of reference? What decisions can the group make? And, importantly, are the people involved genuinely passionate about making a difference? A wider committee allows for more open conversations, and as we’ve said, sometimes people don’t know what’s available. Having multiple voices can spark ideas and make a real impact. For me, wellbeing is a shared responsibility, and while HR should oversee it, it shouldn’t be solely their burden. That pharmaceutical company you mentioned is a bit of a curveball—I wouldn’t typically expect wellbeing to sit under corporate sustainability."

Sara:
"That was an interesting situation, for sure. Any final thoughts before we wrap up this fabulous conversation, Louise?"

Louise:
"For me, everything we’ve talked about today ties back to mindset. I believe that if leaders in a business are looking after their mindset and emotional intelligence, they’ll understand their business better. Emotional intelligence plays a huge role in fostering open conversations and empathy, which are critical to creating a wellbeing-focused culture. When leaders have the right mindset and emotional intelligence, it trickles down through the business.

A strong leadership team can significantly boost employee engagement, retention, and overall business performance. When leaders are in a good place, they’re more likely to manage their systems and people effectively. So for me, mindset and emotional intelligence are two key areas that leaders should prioritise."

Sara:
If you’re a business leader, HR leader, or wellbeing manager looking for a more transformative approach to trauma, please join us at 11:30 AM UK time. And if you’re struggling with trauma yourself, this is a safe space where you don’t have to turn your camera on or even talk. We’d love to have you. Feel free to leave any comments in the box below, and I look forward to seeing you at the next episode of The Mind Solution Podcast. Bye for now!"

Free Event Wednesday 11 September: Treating Trauma - The Easy Way

As World Mental Health Day approaches on October 10th, this year’s theme reminds us to prioritise mental health—a mission that is more crucial now than ever.

Imagine the difference you could make by introducing a method that not only supports your employees but could transform their lives.

We’re inviting you to a special event that showcases MAP (Make Anything Possible), a revolutionary approach that works with the Superconscious mind to neutralise trauma and painful memories.

Unlike traditional methods, MAP operates independently of the conscious or unconscious mind, effectively treating the emotions and meanings created by trauma in a gentle, empowering way.

This isn’t just another wellness initiative—it’s a chance to offer your team a life-changing experience that enhances mental and emotional wellbeing.

And because we know that experience is the best teacher, we’re offering you the opportunity to try MAP yourself in a free session before bringing it to your organisation.

You don't even need to speak or have your camera on - simply relax and let your Superconscious mind work its magic!

This is what one Learning and Development Director said about her experience...

I have just experienced a wonderful session hosted by Sara Maude at The Mind Solution International. Sara delivered a session on healing and reducing the impact of trauma using a modality known as MAP. The session lasted about 45 minutes and Sara explained really clearly how the session would run. I have to say I left the session feeling very relaxed and I noticed a significant difference in how I felt about the issue I had brought to the session afterwards. It was a really positive experience. You are not required to divulge any sensitive or personal information. It's a very private and painless experience and Sara put us at ease. Thanks so much Sara - really great session.

Join me on 11 September @ 3 pm UK time to experience firsthand how MAP can make anything possible for your team’s mental health.

Register Here: 

https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZcqdOqtqjkiGNC34Mz-pjNTvrYjgDEFAdfA 

Let’s prioritise mental health together and create lasting positive change.